Curse

Maria The Princess · Aug 21, 2006, 05:46 AM // 05:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

Meteor Shower knocks down. Mmkay.

after 1 Knock down the mob is most of time out of there......so 25e/5 casting/60 recharge is still not justified.... no balance AT ALL

yes i know u all LOVE spitful spirit, so do I, it made me ritch and i see ho wmuch SS outdamages an Ele or any class....but you all asking to nurf the rangers primary attribute AS A WHOLE because you dont know how to counter touchers (which is very easy), but you all keep silence about things that are truely unbalanced, like Spitful spirit or Rit Lord

/end my posts here

Hyper Cutter · Aug 21, 2006, 05:53 AM // 05:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateddybear

OMg you don't see the yu-gi-oh creators nerfing the god cards just because they are overpowered do you?

actually, iirc, the god cards are both nerfed from their anime versions AND banned from tournments completely into the bargain...

Alleji · Aug 21, 2006, 05:55 AM // 05:55

Rofl.

I love you, Shard.

Or maybe this just seems incredibly funny after 2 Am on a long day.

TheMadKingGeorge · Aug 21, 2006, 06:01 AM // 06:01

anyone who attacks with ss is a moron blame the guy attacking with it on not the skill

Mera Regila · Aug 21, 2006, 07:26 AM // 07:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Real games have changes. It's better for things to be nerfed than buffed to balance, else we end up with 50k damage Javazons.

The nerfs we have witnessed aren't balancing the game, merely making it a lot worse. The AoE nerf was a fair nerf to be sure. The MM nerf, also fair. However some of them are just wrong, they nerfed Quick Shot to the point that it's nearly useless unless you use it with a bunch of dmg increasing skills, and countless other nerfs I don't have time to mention.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Plus, EoE change didn't really hurt it that much in PvP..

Actually, it helped us Kurzicks at Aspenwood, balancing it out in our favor.

Mera Regila · Aug 21, 2006, 07:29 AM // 07:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

Until they fix expertise every new class with an dmg skill or weapon is going to deadly in a rangers hands.

They can change expertise to fix that imbalance without messing up its orginal intention. Just lower the it down to 1.5-2% energy reduction for 2nd class skills. That would not make much of a change but it would take more skill to run rather than spamming every skill on your bar over and over.

That way the rangers skills still get the full 3% while not making things like touchers, thumpers, and javalins stronger than what their Primary classes could do.

Cross-Classing for the primary attribute is common, like the Axe-assin, Bunny Thumper, and the R/A daggers. It's merely cleverness on the Rangers' part, using their own primary attribute to help with cross classing. Nerf expertise as a whole just because you have problems with builds that cross class to use it? Unthinkable.

KurtTheBehemoth · Aug 21, 2006, 07:45 AM // 07:45

This thread needs to be nerfed FTW!

Winx.ZN · Aug 21, 2006, 07:46 AM // 07:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by shardfenix

Touch rangers got a nerf? Why am I still getting pwned in 12v12 / random arenas by them!?!?!?

They arent. Nor do they need be. 1 word : snare
GG.
Stop getting "pwned" by them.

On that subject.
LEAVE EXPERTISE ALONE.
Thanks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shardfenix

I am. I used to like pvp because everything was, to some degree, balanced. The only thing that was really bad was hammer damage in small arenas (one warrior alone should never be able to kill one healer alone in any rpg), but in gvg and HA, they were fine. Since factions, arenanet decided to make their game suck ass, for whatever their reasons. Maybe they wanted noobs to be able to win by doing this:
c, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, c, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2 (touch rangers)
or
c, spacebar, c, spacebar (iway)
at least they fixed shardway:
c, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1
Apparently arenanet only wants you to win if you're smart enough to tap 2 buttons randomly with no skill invilved.
In any case, I have stopped playing guild wars until they fix everything. And no I will not buy future expansions until that is done (based on how long it takes arenanet to realize how stupid they are, a good skill balance will take 57.296 years to implement.)

Thats the most interesting part. We will start with touchers.
Touchers :
once again, 1 word. Snare.
4 of them in RA is about the only place I feel slightly annoyed.

iWAY :
I am curious to know if you have actually faced iWAY... and how come you think they always win.
They have no real self healing. If coupled with 2 squishy N/Mos they have mediocre healing (both of which can be taken down rather easily). If combined with vim trappers then I Will Avenge you is pretty much their only heal.
IWAY : For each dead ally, you gain 10 seconds of Health regeneration +3...6 and your attack speed increases by 25%.
10 Seconds of +3 mending a +7 healing breeze (+10). Every 45 seconds. Godly, right?

If coupled with vim trappers. Kill the trappers and thats pretty much gg for them. After that 3 words : aegis and wards. Take those 45 seconds to kill.. i dunno 2-4 of them. Blind/weaken the survivor. Stay in the wards. GG.

If we lose to an iWAY pug I am generally quite embarassed. Not generally, always.
The guilds that practice it like other guilds practice balanced/rspike/bspike/smite/etc are much more than your "c spacebar" iWAY.

"Shardway" I wont even touch since you decided to add "way" to it for no apparent reason.

Last but not least your nugget of wisdom :
(one warrior alone should never be able to kill one healer alone in any rpg)
GG. Thats about all I can say. GG. Monks should be godly and only the focused fire of 4 warriors, 3 mages, and 1 dragon should be able to do anything to them.

These are opinions and do not represent the views held by boxes of cereal or the neat prize inside.

Curse You · Aug 21, 2006, 07:48 AM // 07:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sekkira

Once again, I ask where the 20+ damage came from.

Um I don't know, maybe Irresitible Blow, the skill that they can spam for only 2 energy.

That being said. I have played PvE on 6 out of the 8 professions (Necro, Warrior, Elementalist, Monk, Ranger, Assassin), and I have made my own custom builds for all of them.

Out of all the professions I have played, the Ranger stands out as unique. Their ability to reduce the cost of ALL skills makes them formidable attackers. I have seen countless builds that focus on two things; another profession's skills, and expertise.

On topic, I don't think that buffing skills rather than nerfing them would work. If you always are buffing the skills, eventually all attacks would deal 300 damage, and we would all be level 60.
The point of "nerfing" is to reduce the use of an abused skill. If the skill is too powerful, it makes the most sense to reduce it's power, not increase the power of other skills.

EDIT:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winx.ZN

IWAY : For each dead ally, you gain 10 seconds of Health regeneration +3...6 and your attack speed increases by 25%.
10 Seconds of +3 mending a +7 healing breeze (+10). Every 45 seconds. Godly, right?

No. Shatter Enchantments, and then watch them squirm. IWAY is a SHOUT, and so cannot be removed.

Sekkira · Aug 21, 2006, 08:08 AM // 08:08

Rangers can spam the skill while Warriors can deal more damage with it. Get a zealous hammer with tiger's fury up and you'll have a crapload of energy. With Ferocious Strike as energy management I think it'd work out quite even.

You know what makes thumpers imbalanced? Pet DP, Death Nova, Putrid Explosion and the wonderful overpowered Beast Mastery. Expertise just enhances the abilities of Beast Mastery, which it's supposed to do to the Ranger. The problem is enhancing an overpowered line. You think nerfing Expertise will solve the Thumper gimmick?

TheMadKingGeorge · Aug 21, 2006, 08:30 AM // 08:30

how about make the touch skills - spells as expertise only uses skills not spells

Tetris L · Aug 21, 2006, 08:33 AM // 08:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaida the Heartless

[...]this "nerfing" trend that Anet has set is getting quite annoying. In fact, I have completely stopped pvp play altogether as a result (touch rangers being the final "snapping point").

If I understand you correctly you complain about ANet doing too much "nerfing", and in the same paragraph demand that they nerf touch rangers. Please, be consistent and make some sense.

Mera Regila · Aug 21, 2006, 08:56 AM // 08:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMadKingGeorge

how about make the touch skills - spells as expertise only uses skills not spells

An unreasonable nerf that will never happen. [/post]

CorstedPirate · Aug 21, 2006, 09:40 AM // 09:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by curtman

Put Touch skills in soul, so the Luxons cannot send their 4-8 man R/N squads to ABs. Doing so would allow Necros to touch, but prefevents the touch and evasion thing which make the R/N cheap and annoying.

What about my blood Necro, eh? Perhaps I don't want to have Soul Reaping higher than Blood Magic.

I would also rather not have my Rangers performance nerfed thanks. No, my Ranger is not a toucher. I have her set as a poisoner, it has been very tempting to switch over to R/N or R/Me to better factilitate the condition spreading too. Honestly I hardly play with my Ranger enough to bother. I would really just rather not log in to find out that the first character I ever made is suddenly not fun to play.

Avarre · Aug 21, 2006, 09:57 AM // 09:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mera Regila

Actually, it helped us Kurzicks at Aspenwood, balancing it out in our favor.

If the change improved balance then that's not a nerf that hurts, is it?

Blackhawk · Aug 21, 2006, 11:00 AM // 11:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by CorstedPirate

What about my blood Necro, eh? Perhaps I don't want to have Soul Reaping higher than Blood Magic.

I would also rather not have my Rangers performance nerfed thanks. No, my Ranger is not a toucher. I have her set as a poisoner, it has been very tempting to switch over to R/N or R/Me to better factilitate the condition spreading too. Honestly I hardly play with my Ranger enough to bother. I would really just rather not log in to find out that the first character I ever made is suddenly not fun to play.

Someones actually hit the nail on the head there - FUN, which is what it's supposedly all about, and as the majority of people have posted, Touchies are pretty easy to overcome with a little bit of thinking, but then it appears a lot of people refuse to change their builds to counter them hence the whining and cryout for them to be nerfed.

Only nerf that's REALLY annoyed me was the one to MM, and one skill they really need to "unnerf" is Veratas Sacrifice.

twicky_kid · Aug 21, 2006, 12:30 PM // 12:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mera Regila

Cross-Classing for the primary attribute is common, like the Axe-assin, Bunny Thumper, and the R/A daggers. It's merely cleverness on the Rangers' part, using their own primary attribute to help with cross classing. Nerf expertise as a whole just because you have problems with builds that cross class to use it? Unthinkable.

I have a problem with a ranger can do more dmg with a hammer and a pet compared a hammer war and pet. Paragon spears are the same way. The ranger can do more dmg with the spear and a pet than the paragon with a pet. Some of the spear attacks need a buff but they cannot do that because of the potential abuse from rangers.

Right now expertise is sitting at 3% reduction per attribute. Changing it to 1.5-2% will only make a 1-2 energy difference. It will not kill their ability to use a hammer and spear effectivly but it will stop them from being able to spam the same 2 skills over and over.

The player would need more thought in his usage instead of being an unskilled scrub that hits the same 2 skills back to back the entire match.

When most ranger builds are picked just to use expertise instead of picking the class for its bow and other abilities there is a problem.

Coverticus · Aug 21, 2006, 12:55 PM // 12:55

At the end of the day, ANet updating skills keeps people coming back for more. If ANet were to leave the mechanics alone, then the game would get pretty boring. Updating skills forces everyone to start thinking outside of what they are used to.

Yeah, I've been there with the ele, 55, mm etc skill changes but, to be honest, has improved the game overall since I have had to make changes (sometimes drastic) to my builds so that I can continue being effective as possible with each character.

Instead of kicking off about skill updates, why not devote the time and energy spent writing a forum submission into creating new builds?

And yes, I agree with previous posts, it wont be long before SS gets looked at by Anet...

Alex Weekes · Aug 21, 2006, 01:37 PM // 13:37

It's interesting reading these sorts of threads, from a social point of view. People tend to remember things that affect them or their playstyle in particular, and typically a 'nerf' results in a lot more forum posts than a buff does. Largely because anything nerfed is something that a lot of players are using (and therefore the nerf affects them), while a buff will be to something that is used far less often (otherwise it wouldn't need to be buffed...)

The end result is, as someone early in this post phrased it, a perception that the dev team nerf everything. That's exactly what it is, as well, because an analysis of the update history of Guild Wars since it was released will show that a) there are more buffs than nerfs (someone else can go count it all up

); and b) in many cases the 'nerf' made at the time can, in hindsight, be shown to be less severe than was originally thought. The Minion Master 'nerf' is a prime example, with a goodly number of pre-nerf MMs having gone on record that their post-nerf character is actually buffed (mostly in terms of enjoyment to play, but also in other ways).

Anyway, you should know that there is huge amounts of analysis that goes into any changes that are made. That extends from forum posts, through obs mode monitoring, through data, through the alpha test. There is *always* a reason for any change that goes through. It may not always be obvious, but there will be a reason.

YunSooJin · Aug 21, 2006, 01:47 PM // 13:47

To be totally honest, I am pretty anti-ANET about the way they handle a lot of nerfs in game, be it from drops to skills.

But I find the whining about touch rangers to be ridiculous. I can guarantee that any pvp'er worth their salt will not be complaining about how overpowered touch rangers are, but instead finding them a minor annoyance and just killing them.

I know it's been said a million times so let's say it again:

IF YOU CANNOT KILL TOUCH RANGERS YOU ARE DOING SOMETHING WRONG.

If touch rangers were really overpowered you would see them all over the HA and GvG meta. Unfortunately touch rangers suck, and only blind little nubs with no imagination will constantly get their ego punched each time they die to the equally blind nubs that run this stupid build.

Wow..go get some skills people.